Not to take anything away from the Samaritans etc but the journalist is wrong about this being the world’s oldest office. The Chinese “Duke Yansheng” is a descendant of Confucius (died 479 BCE) currently held by Kung Tsui-chang (born 1975).

Let Arabs keep the Keffiyah. We shouldn’t try to take it away from them.

While Yemeni Jews etc did no doubt wear Keffiyahs as his argument states its like Arabs saying they’ve been using candelabra’s for thousands of years so they should do an Arab-Menorah. This is one instance where Jews should really let Arabs have their symbol and leave it alone. After all Jews already have a scarf (no doubt derived from similar reasons thousands of years ago) the Tallit. So let Arabs have their scarf and Jews can have ours.

Its one thing to make Humus and market it as Israeli but to try to claim one of the more important symbols of Arab culture is wrong. We can’t have double standards because I’d criticise Arabs for appropriating Jewish culture or denying the Temple etc…

Its very much like the people that blame Robert Spencer for being Islamophobic because he documents Islamist crimes on his website http://www.jihadwatch.org/

Reporting on the crimes, tactics, ideology, comments and actions of Islamofascists is not “right wing” or “extremist,” it is those very things reported about that cause Islamophobia. Melanie Phillips simple stands up for womens rights, freedom of the the press, freedom of thought, minority rights etc all the things suppressed in Sharia societies and is fighting against the “creeping sharia” taking place throughout the west (already polygamous spouses are receiving government assistance in the UK etc).

One simple way to reduce Islamophobia is for every Iman and Muslim leader in the UK to hold mass rallies against Islamic terrorism instead of justifying it as they have in their so-called “peace rallies” that are nothing more than pro-hezballah/hamas rallies calling for the end of Israel/US etc. They should also stop preaching hatred in Mosques (as documented in several undercover videos available online).

Why would I read that there when I can just scroll up and read it here? And, I don’t live in Pakistan!!

Maybe you should be convincing your fellow Muslims Islam teaches peace there seem to be a lot of them misunderstanding

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

you didnt win anything. You want a real victory, go to an Imam and have your duel with a real islamic scholar, not kids from FB at 2 in the morning. By going to an Islamic scholar and having this debate with him, and if HE even cant answer your question or provide a reasonable answer, then yeah we can all say you won this argument. … See MoreBut youre not winning anything with two kids from FB who are too lazy to start searchign through text of the quran at 2am to satisfy your personal quest : / sorry thats just reality. Go to an Imam at atleast two different mosques and let me know how that went. thanks

http://www.jihadwatch.org/

You failed to prove me wrong therefore ive won.

you failed to prove yourself right, so who is the winner?

you’ve also failed to provide evidence for your sisters initial contention that “Muslims love all people they dont hate anyperson and they are very kind so that lets say in one sound
WE LOVE MUSLIMS SOOOOO MUCH”

lol he’s changing the subject now (her)

lmao i didnt fail to provide anything, i offered a more viable solution and answer to your questions by going to a REAL islamic scholar. yeah a real islamic scholar, someone who studies the quran for a LIVING. they have those, go see one and then let me know how that goes.

There have been 15,000 terrorist attacks carried out by muslims since 911 and thousands and thousands more attempted. I suggest it isn’t me you need to prove Islam is peaceloving and likes other people and religions to its other muslims
uh oh, he’s jumping from what’s in the Quran to the rate of terrorism. what a tool x[

No, I'm not Muslims are. Because the Koran teaches violence and Jihad these muslims "jump from the koran to terrorism"
Yesterday at 6:05pm · Delilah Roy You're a moron. Hating Muslims because of Bin Laden and his clan is the same as hating Germans because of Hitler.

Once again my initial request from your sister was to name where in the koran it says to love everyone after she said;

"Muslims like Jews and they like every other religion. Muslims are having issues with Israel, not all Jews. It’s in the Quran to love everyone."

provide these accusations from a formidable source, and i dont mean those fueled propaganda websites you supplied that are very bias in nature i must say. btw should i provide you how many attacks have been carried out by a number of groups that have nothing to do with being muslims. lets not forget the attacks on the gaza strip carried out by the israeli army using illegal weapons.

they never used illegal weapons, white phospheros isnt illegal

i have my source from BBC that says isreal used illegal weapons on their assault of the gaza strip.

hamas fired 8000 missiles at israel after they entirely withdrew from gaza and israel didnt do anything for years until hamas kidnapped an israeli soldier

Why are you hating hamas? It's so yummy!!!

its refering to white phospheros which isnt illegal hamas did several illegal things;
didnt where uniforms (illegal against geneva conventions)
fired missiles into israeli schools etc
the israeli soldier isnt allowed access to the red cross etc
they fired weapons from amongst civilians using human shields

lol I like Houmus very much but i dont like Hamas

I like garlic hummus. YUM.

look the problem right now with Islam is that its been hijacked my extremists. It really has you can argue all you want but it has. It can't go on this way because otherwise it will lead to world war 3. Reasonable people like you need to be in positions of leadership and preach the peaceful aspects of Islam. You need to stop the hatred preached in mosques eg

http://www.memritv.org/

Each side has their woes, this is sadly after all war. none-the-less the American based Human Rights Watch has called on Israel to stop using white phosphorus. Their people observed the use of the chemical, which can burn away human flesh to the bone, over Gaza City, an area full of families.
so at times of war, both sides are guilty of great crime... See More. israel is no different, and no better than hamas, well atleast the generals who condoned and accepted the use of white phosphorus, amongst other battle tactics that has proven detrimental to the civilians in the gaza strip. no one in this is walking away innocent.

yes but it was only used so that hamas missiles couldnt shoot down israeli helicopters. You should read this article;

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1542897

lol i need to go read this article goodnight!
goodnight <333

absolutely the extremeists are putting a very bad name to us muslims who just want to put a roof over our childrens head and provide an education that can lead to a better life than the parents. We try to teach morals, and virtues through the quran, to have fear in god, and to cherish everyone around you. these outlandish translations you read on these "islamic" websites is not the same quran i have read.

I just dont like certain aspects of islam eg polygamy
judaism was polygamous until 1000 years ago, I just think islam needs to go through an enlightenment/reformation like christianity and judaism.
I actually think it probably is happening now which is why the forces of barbarity like bin laden are fighting back against reformers and modernisers

um, less than like 1% of muslims practice polygamy (her)

lol lets be real do you think the muslim women would be okay with their husbands marrying other women? these women are muslim but lets face facts, they are also women at nature. no woman in their right mind wants to share their husband with another man. atleast not in this day and age. its rare that there is practicing polygamy in a muslim family nowadays.

women are bitches, they don't like to share their men x]
i mean another woman, not man loll :X (her)
i love my twin brother, aiden ♥ (her)

the forces of barbarity are dying out. they are killing themselves, and dying from other forces. theyre becoming obsolete with every stupid suicide bombing they do, and every attack held against them. to really get rid of them however you need to educate.
many of these suicide bombers i believe dont even read the real quran, might have some …
See More
altered quran given by these extremeists. schools need to be raised, and we need viable teachers for these youngsters, and teachers who advocate peace and prosperity, not violence and extermination.

oh em jee, you go aiden! (her)

So would you agree polygamy should be outlawed in Islam?

polygamy should be outlawed everywhere! (her)

Okay so can you say it should be outlawed in Islam? Please clearly state it.

It’s in Judaism too so it should be outlawed in both religions and no one practices polygamy, not even muslims. (her)

It was outlawed in Judasim in 11th century CE by Rabbi Gershom Ben Yehuda so its not in Judaism. I want you to state clearly it should be outlawed in Islam without referring to another religion or qualifying your answer.

(I’ve noticed in every debate with Muslims that they often answer questions with questions and don’t take any ultimate responsibility eg blame Islam for anything. This is the case here where she refuses to clearly state that polygamy should be outlawed in Islam and “passes the buck” onto Judaism even though I’ve already pointed out earlier that polygamy hasn’t been practiced in Judaism for 1,000 years.)

——————————————————————————
Sure enough her next response confirms my assumptions as she once again fails to prove any of her contentions. She also makes some illogical statements as I point out…..
——————————————————————————
so I want you to state clearly that Islam should ban polygamy. I also want to know your views and the Islamic punishment for homosexuals and apostates from Islam (Muslims becoming Christians or Jews or Bahais).

and i want to to shut the fuck up and if you want to talk about islam to someone who actually knows what they’re talking about, go to an Imam in a mosque. don’t ask me, i’m late for skewl.

If you’re admitting you don’t know about islam then why did you start a thread telling everyone what islam says about love (according to you). Now you’re admitting you don’t know what it says.

erm, i said ISLAM teaches to love everyone. i never said MUSLIMS teach to love anyone. i said it’s in the QURAN to love everyone, and if a homosexual asks for forgiveness to forgive him because it’s not another mans call if the homosexual gets punished or not, it’s Gods call. Now don’t write back because i’m tired of talking to you and i’m going to block you >:[

Please quote the passages teaching love from the Koran.

(I’m in Italics)

Muslims love all people they dont hate anyperson and they are very kind so that lets say in one sound
WE LOVE MUSLIMS SOOOOO MUCH

Do Muslims love Jews?

Muslims like Jews and they like every other religion. Muslims are having issues with Israel, not all Jews. It’s in the Quran to love everyone.

what sura is it? what about the Qur’an (5:51) - “O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.” ???

do you understand arabic?

I understand Hebrew which is very similar and has the same semitic roots for words (eg king in arabic is malik and in hebrew its melek), I suspect you’re going to say its not the correct translation but it is as this Muslim website makes clear;
http://www.submission.org/suras/sura5.html

Please i must disagree as i have studied arabic and have spoken to scholars first hand who have cleared things that i was unsure of. The Quran states that jew’s, christian’s and other religions as well sahaaba’s will be rewarded. A muslim can not kill not kill a non believer, they can only educate. What you must understand is that many people have …

It’s in the Quran that disbelievers of God will be punished, not followers of Jesus or Moses, because Muslims believe in Jesus Christ AND Moses. Get your facts straight Paul, you retard.

Okay both of you please provide me with another translation of the quran 5:51 and information as to which translation it is before calling me names etc.

Also Muslims don’t believe in Jesus Christ as christians believe(since Christ is greek for messiah) and Muslims dont believe jesus was the Messiah or son of God. They believe in “a jesus” thats very different from the Christian Jesus and who didn’t die on the cross etc.

As to Moses, please tell me which Mosques teach the books of Moses? The … See MoreBibles not even allowed to be taught in S’audi Arabia this is complete rubbish, again Muslims only believe in “their” version of Moses and “their” version of Jesus.

Um, I’m a Muslim and I think I would know ten times better than you. I believe in Jesus Christ, what the Bible says about Jesus (except that he was the son of God) is EXACTLY what the Quran says. We believe that Christ was hung on a cross and we also believe in Moses, in the Quran his name is Moosa. The Bible is studied in Pakistani Universities and is also taught in universities in UAE.
Please don’t tell me I’m wrong. You’re hearing those statements first hand from a Muslim.

Unless Danielle can find an official and recognised translation of Quaran 5:51 that significantly differs from the 2 translations I’ve provided I will consider you to have failed in your argument.

Unless delilah can provide proof that the Books of Jesus (Gospels) and books of Moses (Torah) are taught in madrassa’s/mosques and aren’t banned from S’audi Arabia then I will consider you to have failed your argument.

Have you read the Gospals? Do you believe Jesus died on the Cross and was ressurected? Please provide the Sura’s it states this in the Koran?

ermm, my cousin is a junior in a university in Pakistan and I have another cousin who goes to a university in Dubai and they always talk about the bullshit westerners put upon them. Uneducated and brainless westerners like yourself, Paul Ruby.

Universitys are not Mosques and Pakistan is not S’audi Arabia (home of Mecca and Medina)

Once again, without resorting to name calling, please name the Suras in the Quran is says that Jesus is the son of God, died on a cross and was ressurected.

Yes, we do believe Jesus died on the cross. Did you not read what I said? Geez, I just said we believe in everything the Bible said about Jesus except we don’t believe that he is God’s son for we are all God’s children.

Google it. I’m not going to waste my time looking through the pages to find it for you. Do it yourself.

Here: I googled it for you.
http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10.htm

If you don’t believe, as a Muslim, that Jesus was the son of God then how can you say you believe in the Gospels since they say precisely this? Also, again please provide a link to Islamic texts stating this and also please provide a link proving my initial translation was wrong. Sura 5:51.

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10.htm
Read that, retard.

I have. Muslims do not study the Gospels or the Torah in Mosques or Madrassas. Is this correct or not?

Okay but as I said earlier Muslims believe in their Jesus and Moses.

1. Please prove my initial quote isnt correct

2. Please provide evidence the Bible is studied in Mosques and isn’t illegal in S’audi Arabia.

We don’t study the Torah, we study the Quran. If we studied the Torah, we would be in senegals and not mosques. We do study what is in the Quran about Christianity and Judaism. If you read all three like I have and actually study the three religions, you will come to see that they are VERY similar. It is even in the Bible to not eat pork because pigs are dirty animals, yet you don’t see me bashing Christians. Do you?

Its like me writing a book about mohammed and announcing that my book makes the koran obsolete and then saying I believe in Mohammed for proof see my book.

If you don’t study the books written by Moses then how can you claim to believe in Moses?

BECAUSE MOSES IS IN THE QURAN YOU DUMB FUCK. DO YOU NOT READ WHAT I WRITE??? dangit, yo.

I have studied Islam at univeristy and read the quran theyre actually very different for instance the quran says ishmael was almost sacrified the bible says isaac. Also while the new testament preaches peace;
“much progress has been achieved by applying statistical analysis to the Islamic doctrines themselves in order to understand why pious … See MoreMuslims are waging jihad on unbelievers. Specifically, we now understand that about sixty-one percent of the contents of the Koran are found to speak ill of unbelievers or call for their violent conquest; at best only 2.6 percent of the verses of the Koran are noted to show goodwill toward humanity. Get this: about seventy five percent of Muhammad’s biography (Sira) consists of jihad waged on unbelievers.”

http://frontpagemag.com/2009/12/14/the-yemeni-koran-by-jamie-glazov/

You’re a complete idiot for talking to a Muslim and telling her what she does and does not do. It’s like studying French in school for two years and going to a native French speaking person and telling them how to speak French correctly. Go away. I’m not wasting my time reading what you type anymore.

Once again you have to resort to name calling to debate.

Again, you believe in an Islamic Moses not the Moses of Jews and Christians that existed prior to Mohammed and continues to exist. If you believed in the Judeo-Christian Moses you would study the books of Moses but you don’t. Exactly as I said;
“Its like me writing a book about mohammed and announcing that my book makes the koran obsolete and then saying I believe in Mohammed for proof see my book.”

So far we’ve established;
1. You have to swear and name call to debate
2. You can’t provide another translation of sura 5:51 that doesn’t say what i claimed.
3. Muslims don’t infact study the Gospels or Torah and so therefore don’t believe in the traditional Moses and Jesus that existed prior to the 8th century and continue to, despite your earlier claims to the contrary.

Earlier you said you believed in exactly the moses and jesus of the bible but now you admit, as a muslim, you dont believe in the bible eg study it at mosque. So I haven’t told you anything you’ve told me 2 things. A lie initially and then the truth when confronted.

once again; provide another translation of sura 5:51 that doesn’t say what i claimed.
That is what started this debate when you called me names, please prove me wrong. Provide a translation of that sura that doesn’t say not to take christians and jews as friends.

also, please provide a passage from the quran that states muslims love jews.

again your whole argument is like me writing a book about mohammed and announcing that my book makes the koran obsolete and then saying I believe in Mohammedbut i dont believe in the koran, for proof of my belief in mohammed see my book (and in this book i can say whatever i feel about mohammed) but I still “believe” in him.

and youd say “then why dont you believe in the koran” and id say “i dont need to all that matters about mohammeds in my book” and youd say “but then you dont believe in the islamic mohammed” and id say “why not i believe in mohammed” and youd say “but you dont believe in the koran” and id say “no i dont need the koran i have my new book about mohammed my books better than the koran because God dictated it to me so it must be true”

Its a circular argument. Facts are;
Bible existed before the Koran.

Her Brother came on;

Aiden Roy;

You must excuse Delilah with her brash words, however, comes with the best intentions. None-the-less she speaks the truth about muslims believing in the same Moses and Jesus we are all taught in the Torah and the Gospels. Not the exact same literature, but its pretty darn close I must say. Of course you wont normally find people studying the Torah … See Moreor the gospel in mosques, not saying its impossible, lets be real the mosques are built primarily for the Quran. Im sure if you brought a bible or the Torah to a mosque you wont be asked to leave, as these are both holy books that the Quran holds high value, but like stated before mosques are primarily for praying, teaching and reading of the Quran. There are churches and synagogue’s for the bible and the torah.

you say that muslims are taught by the quran to not trust jews and christians because they are friends of each other and not of muslim people. you tell your source is from an islamic website, why dont you look at a real Quran in person and tell me if you still see the same writing

No Im quoting from the Koran I’m not saying anything. I have I’ve read it. Once again although you’re trying to be reasonable you’re saying 2 different things;

“muslims believing in the same Moses and Jesus we are all taught in the Torah and the Gospels. Not the exact same literature, but its pretty darn ”

All I want is you to answer 3 questions;… See More

1. If Sura 5:51 doesn’t say what I’ve claimed what does it say? Please provide a translation and a source.

2. Please provide Sura’s that state Muslims should love Jews.

3. What was the name of the son Abraham/Ibrahim almost sacrificed?

Open a Quran and look for it yourself because we have to go to sleep.

I have looked and I’ve provided 2 different translations including 1 from an islamic website and they both say the same thing. Also this debate is now on my friends website;

http://defendisrael.blog.com/

if you want a translation of Sura 5:51 your best bets are to get the real quran in person, and go to id say umm 3 or 4 mosques and ask each Imam what they believe Sura 5:51 means. The internet provides a lot of sources and meanings, but you can never be too sure whos behind the actual writing.

Again if you want to see which Sura’s state muslims love not only jews but all christians and believer of god have a talk with an Imam, not a bunch of kids

You have failed to provide a translation so I’ve won this argument. The End.

Also you didnt answer my other questions

The end? No, it’s not the end idiot. I’m in my bed laying and I’m not about to waste my energy to open up a Quran to prove anything to you. If you want proof, go to a mosque where they have people who know Islam inside and out. If he can’t prove anything to you, THEN you’ve won. Right now, you haven’t won shit.

You can’t accuse Al Qaeda of being stupid. When they initially listed their reasons for the 911 attacks much was made in the media about how they didn’t list the Israel-Palestine conflict as a reason. A little while later, listening to the Western media which of course makes this issue a raison d’etre they added it to their list of grievances.

Al Qaeda recognises the sympathy it gets from elements in the Western left who blame themselves and their cuture/country for terrorism. They come from the “if it wasn’t for Western imperialism there wouldn’t be terrorism,” or the “Well surely we’ve done something to make them act this way” crowd. They of course forget that violent Jihad has been an integral part of Islamic Imperalism since Mohammed.

Now come reports that Bin Laden is adding more “lefty issues” to his agenda in an effort to gain further sympathy for his organisation from Western useful idiots. He will probably move into the “Che” arena of being perceived as some kind of revolutionary freedom fighter by the leftist mainstream eventually.

Dershowitz has called Goldstone a traitor and is getting criticism for it.

Dershowitz is totally correct. Goldstone is a traitor and is regarded by most Jews as such. We can use a lot of analogies for his behavior and liken him to quisling “court Jews” or the Jews that helped the Nazis in concentration camps etc but analysing what he has actually done is far more important. He as overseen a report from a notoriously anti-Jewish/Israeli body (the UN) that’s very purpose is to slander Israel. It is filled with untruths and inaccuracies. He lets a terrorist group dedicated to killing all Jews everywhere (not just Israelis) off and has allowed his report to be used as a tool to bash Israel in international forums. If this is not a traitor then what is?

I commented, about Goldstone saying Israel should be held to a higher standard than Hamas, on the great Augean Stables blog;

Goldstone is full of sh*t. Imagine what the NGOs, HRWs etc would say if Israel suddenly announced it wasn’t a democracy but a religious theocracy based on Jewish Law. Would the criticisms of Israel be any worse? (I should have said “better” but the point is criticisms wouldn’t cease) NO!

On the one hand he’s calling for equality and on the other admitting he’s holding Israel to a higher standard than other countries. Pure hypocricy. Goldstone also admits openly that much of his report isn’t true (wouldn’t hold up in a court of law) and worst of all he takes no responsibility for his actions demonising Israel and ultimately the Jewish people. He belongs with the list of Jewish traitors; Soros, Chomsky etc. Someone needs to sue him for slander/libel!

Also, Goldstone’s comment is also flawed considering Sri lanka is a Democracy too and he didn’t sign any Amnesty International letters about that conflict which was at the exact time as the Gaza conflict and cost 20 times more lives.

To #41 There is no point debating someone who doesn’t believe any evidence that casts Israel in a neutral or favourable light is “credible” your mind is made up. You are a victim of your own ideology whatever that is.

You are as bad as #35 who states “But, some commentators say, the Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel. Yawn.” when the very post before him is a direct quote from the Hamas charter disproving him.

Maybe you guys are practicing Taqiyya or you’re just ignorant or refuse to admit reality but in any case you’re constantly proved wrong and ignore reality.

During the Gaza war Israel send SMS messages warning civilians to flee yet Hamas sent SMS messages threatening them that they wouldn’t be safe anywhere from Hamas rockets;

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/01/08/63828.html

This is the essential difference between Israel and Hamas.

Goldstone refuses to debate anyone since he lost his only debate to Dore Gold. He will only talk now if an opposing view is not heard. You can watch his debate with Gold here;

http://www.onejerusalem.org/2009/11/dore-gold-debates-goldstone-at.php

Although Goldstone said he would respond to serious criticisms of the report when challenged by an open letter outlining some of his reports flaws he said;

“I confirm receipt of your letter. I have no intention of responding to your open letter.”

http://www.goldstonereport.org/open-letters-to-goldstone/442?task=view